Comments on: Assembly passes monumental reforms http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/ Analysis, opinion and ruminations on California education policy Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:45:40 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: RDT http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4525 RDT Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:11:39 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4525 Pete -- apologies for the name confusion. Maybe 33 districts is too many, but I remain very skeptical of consolidation as an efficiency builder. It's effective when the groups consolidating really feel they have a common purpose. But without that, you end up trying to get people who are naturally tending in different direction to all move in the same direction, which tend to add layers of bureaucratic herders. Pete — apologies for the name confusion. Maybe 33 districts is too many, but I remain very skeptical of consolidation as an efficiency builder. It’s effective when the groups consolidating really feel they have a common purpose. But without that, you end up trying to get people who are naturally tending in different direction to all move in the same direction, which tend to add layers of bureaucratic herders.

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]]> By: CarolineSF http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4478 CarolineSF Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:19:04 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4478 But RDT is right: "I can think of no other field where the expertise of day-to-day practitioners is so routinely derided." That's different from keeping in mind the agenda of a "special interest." The widespread public and media view is that teachers' opinions should be wholesale disdained and scorned as self-serving, while instead the views -- and, unfortunately, magical thinking -- of opinion leaders who never set a foot in the classroom should be given full credit. (And if you get me started here in San Francisco on Chronicle editorial writers who send their kids to elite private schools and/or live in privileged suburban enclaves themselves but know EVERYTHING about how to fix our urban public schools... well, never mind. They know who they are.) But RDT is right: “I can think of no other field where the expertise of day-to-day practitioners is so routinely derided.” That’s different from keeping in mind the agenda of a “special interest.” The widespread public and media view is that teachers’ opinions should be wholesale disdained and scorned as self-serving, while instead the views — and, unfortunately, magical thinking — of opinion leaders who never set a foot in the classroom should be given full credit. (And if you get me started here in San Francisco on Chronicle editorial writers who send their kids to elite private schools and/or live in privileged suburban enclaves themselves but know EVERYTHING about how to fix our urban public schools… well, never mind. They know who they are.)

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]]> By: John Fensterwald http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4476 John Fensterwald Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:54:42 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4476 Agreed -- and a valid point. Every disagreement shouldn't be dismissed with labels of self-interest. But I would apply the same scrutiny to the American Medical Assn. and the Trial Lawyers Assn. of America, which have resisted changes in their professions, too. Agreed — and a valid point. Every disagreement shouldn’t be dismissed with labels of self-interest.
But I would apply the same scrutiny to the American Medical Assn. and the Trial Lawyers Assn. of America, which have resisted changes in their professions, too.

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]]> By: Pete Carrillo http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4471 Pete Carrillo Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:53:47 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4471 RDT- First and foremost it is Pete or Pedro, but please NOT Peter. Stop being lazy! You are correct that we do not need more gigantic school districts- but we certainly do not need 33 school districts in one county. RDT- First and foremost it is Pete or Pedro, but please NOT Peter. Stop being lazy! You are correct that we do not need more gigantic school districts- but we certainly do not need 33 school districts in one county.

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]]> By: RDT http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4470 RDT Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:39:14 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4470 Second, a comment on Peter Carrillo's comment... Is there any evidence that district consolidation produces better schools. I know it seems more "efficient" on paper, but the reality of L.A. Unified or even San Francisco Unified seems more problematic. I think you run into difficulties when organizations get so large that the people in charge don't have day-to-day contact people who have day-to-day contact with students. Second, a comment on Peter Carrillo’s comment… Is there any evidence that district consolidation produces better schools. I know it seems more “efficient” on paper, but the reality of L.A. Unified or even San Francisco Unified seems more problematic. I think you run into difficulties when organizations get so large that the people in charge don’t have day-to-day contact people who have day-to-day contact with students.

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]]> By: RDT http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4469 RDT Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:31:14 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4469 First a comment on the main post... John -- Please try not to get pulled into the "reformer" mindset that believes that everyone involved in the day-to-day work of education (teachers, administrators, school boards) is an entrenched special interest. Maybe, just maybe, they have some insights into the endeavor that politicians and think tanks might be missing. I can think of no other field where the expertise of day-to-day practitioners is so routinely derided. Doctors are at least as entrenched a "special interest" as teachers or school boards, but few people think that H1N1 or even health care reform should be addressed by ignoring what doctors have to say about it. First a comment on the main post…

John — Please try not to get pulled into the “reformer” mindset that believes that everyone involved in the day-to-day work of education (teachers, administrators, school boards) is an entrenched special interest. Maybe, just maybe, they have some insights into the endeavor that politicians and think tanks might be missing.

I can think of no other field where the expertise of day-to-day practitioners is so routinely derided. Doctors are at least as entrenched a “special interest” as teachers or school boards, but few people think that H1N1 or even health care reform should be addressed by ignoring what doctors have to say about it.

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]]> By: Pete Carrillo http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/01/06/assembly-passes-monumental-reforms/comment-page-1/#comment-4468 Pete Carrillo Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:41:49 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=952#comment-4468 Yes a good step forward; but how does "Giving parents stuck in terrible schools a new right to send their children to better schools in other districts" help the low peforming school get better and the children still " stuck" there get better educated? What is missing is fundamental change with regard to school consolidation. In Santa Clara county along we have over 30 school districts- some with one school. Let's get real here! Here is another staggering and exceedingly troubling school statistic which needs some attention. “Cutting the dropout rate in half would reduce the number of juvenile crimes in California by 30,000 and save the state $550 million per year" This according to the University of California Santa Barbara- California Dropout Research Project. This sombering statistic should be enough to start the race to the high school graduation line. Yes a good step forward; but how does “Giving parents stuck in terrible schools a new right to send their children to better schools in other districts” help the low peforming school get better and the children still ” stuck” there get better educated? What is missing is fundamental change with regard to school consolidation. In Santa Clara county along we have over 30 school districts- some with one school. Let’s get real here! Here is another staggering and exceedingly troubling school statistic which needs some attention. “Cutting the dropout rate in half would reduce the number of juvenile crimes in California by 30,000 and save the state $550 million per year” This according to the University of California Santa Barbara- California Dropout Research Project. This sombering statistic should be enough to start the race to the high school graduation line.

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