Comments on: A frank and civil dialogue on charters http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/ Analysis, opinion and ruminations on California education policy Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:34:07 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Joanne Jacobs http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-36063 Joanne Jacobs Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:24:38 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-36063 My book, "Our School," does not state that DCP expels students for low achievement. Nearly all students are low achievers when they enroll.  Some students take five years to graduate, which is not considered a big deal. My book, “Our School,” does not state that DCP expels students for low achievement. Nearly all students are low achievers when they enroll.  Some students take five years to graduate, which is not considered a big deal.

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]]> By: Master Teacher http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5739 Master Teacher Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:24:23 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5739 Do not believe everything Jen Andaluz feeds you. DCP DOES dump academically low students. It is bad form to have students in your school that don't meet the mission and so they are quietly disposed. But there are the few students that do make it to the end and do quiet well. But these students are usually not that low academically in the first place. It is not pretty but it IS what happens at this school. unfortunately, with such high turn around with teachers because they are severely over worked and severely underpaid, despite a recent pay raise in the past few years and the administration feels that this is competitive pay, but the truth is with increasing lack of support from the community and donors with the deep pocketbooks, how could they possibly be competitive? Every year is different and nothing is allowed to develop and improve. This school will be successful once the ED and the entire administration and perhaps some of the board are removed and actual educators with classroom experience and credentials are allowed to lead the school. Do not believe everything Jen Andaluz feeds you. DCP DOES dump academically low students. It is bad form to have students in your school that don’t meet the mission and so they are quietly disposed. But there are the few students that do make it to the end and do quiet well. But these students are usually not that low academically in the first place. It is not pretty but it IS what happens at this school. unfortunately, with such high turn around with teachers because they are severely over worked and severely underpaid, despite a recent pay raise in the past few years and the administration feels that this is competitive pay, but the truth is with increasing lack of support from the community and donors with the deep pocketbooks, how could they possibly be competitive? Every year is different and nothing is allowed to develop and improve. This school will be successful once the ED and the entire administration and perhaps some of the board are removed and actual educators with classroom experience and credentials are allowed to lead the school.

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]]> By: Teacher http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5738 Teacher Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:10:59 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5738 Do not believe everything Jen Andaluz feeds you. DCP DOES dump academically low students. It is bad form to have students in your school that don't meet the mission and so they are quietly disposed. But there are the few students that do make it to the end and do quiet well. But these students are usually not that low academically in the first place. It is not pretty but it IS what happens at this school. unfortunately, with such high turn around with teachers because they are severely over worked and severely underpaid, despite a recent pay raise in the past few years and the administration feels that this is competitive pay, but the truth is with increasing lack of support from the community and donors with the deep pocketbooks, how could they possibly be competitive? Every year is different and nothing is allowed to develop and improve. This school will be successful once the ED and the entire administration and perhaps some of the board are removed and actual educators with classroom experience and credentials are allowed to lead the school. Do not believe everything Jen Andaluz feeds you. DCP DOES dump academically low students. It is bad form to have students in your school that don’t meet the mission and so they are quietly disposed. But there are the few students that do make it to the end and do quiet well. But these students are usually not that low academically in the first place. It is not pretty but it IS what happens at this school. unfortunately, with such high turn around with teachers because they are severely over worked and severely underpaid, despite a recent pay raise in the past few years and the administration feels that this is competitive pay, but the truth is with increasing lack of support from the community and donors with the deep pocketbooks, how could they possibly be competitive? Every year is different and nothing is allowed to develop and improve. This school will be successful once the ED and the entire administration and perhaps some of the board are removed and actual educators with classroom experience and credentials are allowed to lead the school.

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]]> By: CarolineSF http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5281 CarolineSF Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:36:53 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5281 Page 211 of Joanne Jacobs' "Our School" The Inspiring Story of Two Teachers, One Big Idea, and the School That Beat the Odds": "Many students left DCP for academic or behavioral reasons." Page 211 of Joanne Jacobs’ “Our School” The Inspiring Story of Two Teachers, One Big Idea, and the School That Beat the Odds”:

“Many students left DCP for academic or behavioral reasons.”

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]]> By: Joanne Jacobs http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5233 Joanne Jacobs Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:29:07 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5233 My book, "Our School" (available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc.), explains that Downtown College Prep recruits students who are way behind academically: The average ninth grader starts with a fifth-grade reading and math level. The district's counselors encourage "at-risk" students with poor behavior and attendance records and disability labels to go to DCP. It's not uncommon for students to need two years in ninth grade (and two summer school sessions) to pass enough courses to make it to 10th grade. Students who fail ninth grade twice are not allowed to return for a third year in the same grade. (Who'd want to?) Perhaps this is what Grannan means. It makes sense to me to offer DCP as an alternative for low achievers. If it doesn't work for them -- and it won't work for everyone -- they can try one of the district-run programs for at-risk students, which have much lower expectations (but much higher failure rates). In researching "Our School," I saw many students struggle and fail. Most stuck with it, started doing the work, improved and went on to college, where they struggled, failed, worked harder and improved. The first group of DCP grads to earn college degrees included some former F students. DCP doesn't give up on low achievers. My book, “Our School” (available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc.), explains that Downtown College Prep recruits students who are way behind academically: The average ninth grader starts with a fifth-grade reading and math level. The district’s counselors encourage “at-risk” students with poor behavior and attendance records and disability labels to go to DCP.

It’s not uncommon for students to need two years in ninth grade (and two summer school sessions) to pass enough courses to make it to 10th grade. Students who fail ninth grade twice are not allowed to return for a third year in the same grade. (Who’d want to?) Perhaps this is what Grannan means.

It makes sense to me to offer DCP as an alternative for low achievers. If it doesn’t work for them — and it won’t work for everyone — they can try one of the district-run programs for at-risk students, which have much lower expectations (but much higher failure rates).

In researching “Our School,” I saw many students struggle and fail. Most stuck with it, started doing the work, improved and went on to college, where they struggled, failed, worked harder and improved. The first group of DCP grads to earn college degrees included some former F students. DCP doesn’t give up on low achievers.

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]]> By: Jennifer Andaluz http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5232 Jennifer Andaluz Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:59:56 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5232 In response to the comment that Downtown College Prep "expels students for low academic achievement" I presume the writer hasn't made the effort to understand the purpose of our school. Downtown College Prep's mission is to prepare underachieving students who will be the first in their family to graduate from college to thrive at four-year universities. We explicitly target students who have failed in middle school and are below grade level in core subjects. We offer a program where kids catch up on the skills they should have learned in elementary and middle school while accelerating them to achieve rigorous standards aligned with the A-G curriculum. We have never in our ten years expelled a student for low academic achievement. I will note that going from a 5th grade reading level to AP English in the span of 4 years requires a deep commitment on the part of students to create new habits and develop a new mindset about schooling and their future. There are students who aren't willing to participate in an extended day or commit their summers in order to overcome the academic gaps. They often choose to leave DCP and to attend a traditional school where the graduation requirements are less rigorous. These students are our "target student" and every time one of them leaves our program we re-commit to making the path to college success something that all kids can achieve. In response to the comment that Downtown College Prep “expels students for low academic achievement” I presume the writer hasn’t made the effort to understand the purpose of our school. Downtown College Prep’s mission is to prepare underachieving students who will be the first in their family to graduate from college to thrive at four-year universities. We explicitly target students who have failed in middle school and are below grade level in core subjects. We offer a program where kids catch up on the skills they should have learned in elementary and middle school while accelerating them to achieve rigorous standards aligned with the A-G curriculum. We have never in our ten years expelled a student for low academic achievement. I will note that going from a 5th grade reading level to AP English in the span of 4 years requires a deep commitment on the part of students to create new habits and develop a new mindset about schooling and their future. There are students who aren’t willing to participate in an extended day or commit their summers in order to overcome the academic gaps. They often choose to leave DCP and to attend a traditional school where the graduation requirements are less rigorous. These students are our “target student” and every time one of them leaves our program we re-commit to making the path to college success something that all kids can achieve.

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]]> By: CarolineSF http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5225 CarolineSF Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:20:43 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5225 Joanne Jacobs' book on the founding of Downtown College Prep stated explicitly that the school expels students for low academic achievement. Well, by definition that school is not "open to all," and by definition it's dumping its least successful students on regular public schools. How can anyone even question those points, unless Jacobs got it wrong? Joanne Jacobs’ book on the founding of Downtown College Prep stated explicitly that the school expels students for low academic achievement. Well, by definition that school is not “open to all,” and by definition it’s dumping its least successful students on regular public schools. How can anyone even question those points, unless Jacobs got it wrong?

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]]> By: John Fensterwald http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5222 John Fensterwald Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:12:15 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5222 James: I quoted from the Welcome from Anna Song and Joseph DiSalvo. They also expressed hope that teachers and others in district schools would collaborate with the charter community. Before reaching conclusions, here is the entire text: <em>"Welcome to the Santa Clara County Office of Education’s Charter School Summit 2010: Communicate-Collaborate-Coexist. Many people in Santa Clara County believe charter school competition with traditional public schools is beneficial. When an enlightened educational community collaborates, shares best practices on increasing student achievement for all and works smartly to eliminate the achievement gap, our children win. However, if competition creates fear and hostility, our children lose. We believe that increased communication and collaboration between the charter school and traditional public school communities will increase high school graduation rates for all students. It is essential that we work together to do the research that will lead to sustained growth for all our students. Silicon Valley has been the global leader in innovation for half a century. We know you want all Silicon Valley schools, charter and traditional public, to be the envy of the state and nation. You want all our children to succeed at the highest level. By interacting with national, state, and local educational leaders and developing a cogent plan for next steps, we can shape our future for the better. We thank our extraordinary Task Force which has worked tirelessly for six months to develop today’s Summit program. We also acknowledge the Santa Clara County Board of Education for having the courage to sponsor the event, the Superintendent of Schools for providing staff support, our facilitators, keynote speakers, moderators, panelists and you the participant for making today’s Summit a success for all."</em><em> James: I quoted from the Welcome from Anna Song and Joseph DiSalvo. They also expressed hope that teachers and others in district schools would collaborate with the charter community. Before reaching conclusions, here is the entire text:
“Welcome to the Santa Clara County Office of Education’s Charter School Summit 2010: Communicate-Collaborate-Coexist.
Many people in Santa Clara County believe charter school competition with traditional public schools is beneficial. When an enlightened educational community collaborates, shares best practices on increasing student achievement for all and works smartly to eliminate the achievement gap, our children win. However, if competition creates fear and hostility, our children lose.
We believe that increased communication and collaboration between
the charter school and traditional public school communities will increase high school graduation rates for all students. It is essential that we work together to do the research that will lead to sustained growth for all our students.
Silicon Valley has been the global leader in innovation for half a century. We know you want all Silicon Valley schools, charter and traditional public, to be the envy of the state and nation. You want all our children to succeed at the highest level. By interacting with national, state, and local educational leaders and developing a cogent plan for next steps, we can shape our future for the better.
We thank our extraordinary Task Force which has worked tirelessly for six months to develop today’s Summit program. We also acknowledge the Santa Clara County Board of Education for having the courage to sponsor the event, the Superintendent of Schools for providing staff support, our facilitators, keynote speakers, moderators, panelists and you the participant for making today’s Summit a success for all.”

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]]> By: James http://toped.svefoundation.org/2010/02/03/a-frank-and-civil-dialogue-on-charters/comment-page-1/#comment-5217 James Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:22:35 +0000 http://educatedguess.org/blog/?p=1206#comment-5217 I was a bit stunned by Song and DiSalvo's comment that “If competition creates fear and hostility, our children lose.” This suggests that fear and hostility on the part of teachers will make students lose. Do Song and DiSalvo imagine that teachers are incapable of filtering? I work for a law firm; if I find fear or hostility in my workplace (particularly from competition), do I get to allow it to affect the level of service I provide my clients? Does any profession, with a straight face, suggest that such a response would be okay? I would expect that teachers and administrators -- even those who feel fear or hostility as a result of some issue with charter schools -- would not allow their feelings about work to impact the level of service they provide to their students. The rest of us have to make similar separations every day. I was a bit stunned by Song and DiSalvo’s comment that “If competition creates fear and hostility, our children lose.” This suggests that fear and hostility on the part of teachers will make students lose. Do Song and DiSalvo imagine that teachers are incapable of filtering? I work for a law firm; if I find fear or hostility in my workplace (particularly from competition), do I get to allow it to affect the level of service I provide my clients? Does any profession, with a straight face, suggest that such a response would be okay? I would expect that teachers and administrators — even those who feel fear or hostility as a result of some issue with charter schools — would not allow their feelings about work to impact the level of service they provide to their students. The rest of us have to make similar separations every day.

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